Too long; do not read (Destiny)

by dogcow , Hiding from Bob, in the vent core., Thursday, July 30, 2015, 19:50 (3403 days ago) @ Kermit

Seems like people are still complaining about Mig's "attack" on Cruel, without trying to engage with him. I think we’re taking everything personally, especially those who know and have played with Cruel. That’s natural. In the same way, Mig’s not just a name on a screen for me, either.

I'm done with engaging Mig regarding his attack on Cody & Cruel. He was mean, rude, disrespectful, and childish. He crossed a line IMHO. It was uncalled for; I called him on it, he vanished for a day and never responded (maybe that's why people aren't engaging him). I've said my piece regarding that post and now I'm done.

My other post (specifically the How to Win Friends and Influence People post) was not directed at Mig specifically (although it appears he could benefit from it), it was directed at the group/thread as a whole, at Mig, at those responding to him. I thought the title of the book in regards to this situation was a little funny, and honestly people here could really benefit from it.

Now, I'm sure Mig isn't full of venom, hate, and bile in person, usually people are much nicer in person or over voice chat. I'd be happy to discuss the tone of the forum with him or anyone else as long as they can approach the topic in a level-headed non-aggressive non-hatefull way, we should all treat others with respect.

Cody and his brand of cynicism is the virus Mig speaks of, I think. We’ve all been infected. Yes, Mig shat on Cody’s goodbye post, but Cody’s goodbye post was all self-aggrandizement and shitting on all of us rubes who stay because we fall for Bungie’s “tricks.”

I didn't read Cody's post as condescending toward all of us who are still playing and enjoying the game. Yes, there was some self aggrandizement in it and could have been written a little differently ("Here are the reasons I feel I've betrayed what I stand for in a game: There are addictive elements, the story is lacking" vs. "I predicted the addictive elements, I predicted the story would suck").

Here's how I read it, I read it as someone who's disappointed by his own behavior/choices, someone who realizes they've betrayed their values. Imagine if you will that he's a Mormon in an AA meeting saying "I don't believe in drinking alcohol, and yet I've become addicted to it. I've been justifying my use of it, but this can't go on." That doesn't mean he's passing judgement on others who enjoy imbibing. I dunno, that's just how I took it, but maybe that's because I agree with some of the points he (repetitively) makes.

I understand what Mig’s saying. Here's how it manifests for me: I don't feel like I can let my bungie freak flag fly anymore. I feel shy about it. I feel I must include disclaimers, acknowledge sins, and make sure people understand that I did not just fall off the turnip truck as a gamer. I blame Cody in this local context, but he’s certainly part of a larger problem.

:( And that there is a real shame. Seriously. That statement is why I'm responding to your message. I think anyone who wants should be able to be an unabashed bungie fanboy here. I also think people should be able to point out things they don't like about the game without making everyone else feel bad about liking the game.

In Bungie fandom these days the liturgy is Dinklage sucks, the progression system sucks, the story sucks, exclusives suck, Grimoire should be in the game, Activision is evil, Bungie isn’t Bungie anymore, we deserve a game that does such-and-such, and on and on. You have to dig through all of this to find any joy and wonder at what Bungie has created. [warhog jump blasted]

[great story snipped]

At DBO, the best of places, you see the virus at work in the best of us. (And Cruel, I think Mig has made clear that he considers you one of the best). A thread cataloging “wow” moments in Destiny begins with a hat tip to the liturgy (Destiny is no Halo), and then those of us who were wowed many times during the game begin to doubt ourselves. We apologize, we feel obligated to include caveats.

I love Bungie. They’ve earned it from me. I don’t love another game studio the same way.
[snip]
I’m a fanboy. Call me that, I don’t care. I thought Bungie.Org existed for people like me.

I like Dinklebot! People complain about him, but he really honestly doesn't bother me. I think it's pretty cool to have an "angry elf" helping me through my journey. I feel my ghost has some personality to him, and I like it! I'm not sure what I think about the progression system, I like parts and I don't like parts, I'm torn regarding it. I think the story could have been improved or presented better, the plot could have used some development or twists, but I really *really* like the foundation that has been laid for the overarching story. I'm excited to see what happens in the future! I like my exclusives, I don't know what everyone's complaining about ;-). I absolutely love the Grimoire, I think lots of people are missing out by not reading it. Suggesting that it should have been in the game is probably because people recognize how great it is, but that doesn't mean the game is BAD because it's not in it, just that, perhaps, it could benefit from it being included.

You know what? Halo 2's ending was painful for me, the pop-in textures were disappointing, AotCR/TwoBetrayals was kinda repetitive with those cookie-cutter rooms, and the Microsoft Buyout was absolutely horrible for me, end of the world, and yes, the grunts are kinda silly. I think most people in the HBO community way back then would have agreed with most of those points, but the games were absolutely great, the buy-out ended up bringing about some being pretty amazing things, and there was lots of fanboyism. Maybe we're just remembering the best of the good old days and not the bad. Rose color glasses and all that.

Only 1 of my IRL friends that I have any sort of regular contact with is a big Bungie fan (I'm looking at you Slycrel), a couple others like Halo, and the rest are haters. Maybe I'm just used to hearing criticism, maybe I'm just used to defending the games & developer I love, so maybe my opinion of this forum is biased, I dunno, but overall I think this forum is pretty great, and I think it's terrible that people feel intimidated about proclaiming their love of Destiny. People should NOT have to feel bad about loving everything about the game here. What can we do to change that? Maybe there's too much of a spirit of debate around here, I dunno. I think we can have both critiques & proclamations of love here. So, what needs to change for us to have both, or is it impossible (which many believe is what Mig is saying)? Do we need more posts by forumgoers about amazing things or things they love? A special critique category? Guys, gals, any ideas?