Every angry person here should read this. (Destiny)

by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Thursday, July 30, 2015, 18:33 (3403 days ago) @ Claude Errera

I'm not quite sure how to write all of this, because I feel like I'm addressing 3 different posts at once. I don't want to go too far down the rabbit hole of you and me trying to clarify the meaning behind Miguel's words, because I don't think that is fair to any of us. But there are a few points I want to address:

I'm not exactly sure why Mig decided to go with the 'it will be more helpful if you FIGURE OUT what I'm upset about' approach - but Kermit has done a spectacular job of laying out the issue here.

Yes, Kermit's post is fantastic. I would just add that he has done a great job of laying out one of the issues. I feel like in the effort to clarify some of Mig's points, we are sweeping some of the more problematic comments under the rug.

Nobody is saying you shouldn't express doubts or frustrations or unhappiness with the game.

To me, it appears that Mig is saying exactly that.

A forum of intelligent 'self-aware' posts that can easily flip between the fun had in the game along with the occasional wonder about the potential 9 years of expansion, of how tough it is to make a game this broad in scope and appeal, about how they hit the mark more often than not, about how 90% of the time user frustration is *user created*, about peering past the sociological aspects of game playing and being content that things are working out just fine? Well, that would be the dream, no? For me at least.

He is not only telling us what we should be discussing, but what we should not be discussing. AND he his telling us that 90% of "our" problems with the game are our own fault or imagining. He may or may not be right about that, but he is leaving no room for discussion. Isn't that the very problem we're trying to address?

What is important is that IF SOMEONE IS HAPPY WITH THE GAME THEY'RE PLAYING, THEY SHOULDN'T BE MADE TO FEEL BAD ABOUT IT.*

Absolutely agree. Making someone feel bad because they like something is a crappy thing to do, and we should all do our best to avoid it. This responsibility flows both ways though. People who have suggestions or criticisms shouldn't be made to feel like jerks because we don't love every single aspect of the game. 99% of the time, I feel like things around here go just fine. But every now and then, things get a bit heated, posts get carried away or misunderstood, etc. We do pretty well, but there is certainly room for improvement.

Beyond that, some personal responsibility (maybe confidence is the better word?) needs to be at work here as well. All my life, people have been telling me that Legend is a terrible movie. But I love it anyway, and I'm not remotely shy or afraid to say so. My friends have trying to convince me for years that "everyone loves Final Fantasy 7!". They tell me I'm crazy because I don't like it. How much do I let that effect me? Not at all. Just last week, Cody told me he "wasn't so sure about me anymore" because I love Journey so much (the PS4 game, and also the band). I told him I couldn't hear him over the sound of my Hawkmoon, then went and played more Journey and had a great time.

I'm not saying any of this to negate your point. Just trying to say that we should maybe try to be careful about making people feel bad for their opinions, while also having a bit more confidence on our own :)

So when Mig says there's a virus, and that most of us are responsible for propagating it - he's not saying you shouldn't be unhappy with parts of the game, and he's certainly not saying you shouldn't EXPRESS your unhappiness about parts of the game.

As I mentioned above, his words don't seem to mesh with yours, at least as I understand them.

He's saying you should think about the underlying assumptions you make when you are discussing a topic - do you think we all agree that the story is horribly broken? You shouldn't think that. Because it's not true. (You are ABSOLUTELY WELCOME to think the story is horribly broken - but you should leave room in your discussion for people who disagree with you, and you should treat people who SUGGEST that they disagree with you with the respect that you'd like YOUR ideas to be treated with.)

My post here contains no such assumptions. I stated my own feelings, and asked to hear from everyone else. Yet Miguel went out of his way to call me out on it:

but posts like CL's below shows there's still so much work to be done.

Why? What exactly did I do that is so poisonous to this forum? You've already addressed that thread more directly, and for the sake of clarity I'll write another post responding to that one. But without digging in to your thoughts on my post, I feel like Miguel's choice to single it, and me, out is unwarranted.

*Exception to this rule: If you think Cauldron is a good map, you're a bad person.

I might be starting to agree with you, here :)